The Procter & Gamble Company (PG) Presents at Deutsche Bank dbAccess Global Consumer Conference (Transcript)

The Procter & Gamble Company (NYSE:PG) Deutsche Bank dbAccess Global Consumer Conference June 8, 2023 2:30 AM ET

Company Participants

Andre Schulten – CFO

Jon Moeller – CEO

Conference Call Participants

Steve Powers – Deutsche

Operator

P&G would like to remind you that today’s discussion will include a number of forward-looking statements. If you will refer to P&G’s most recent 10-K, 10-Q and 8-K reports, you will see a discussion of factors that could cause the company’s actual results to differ materially from these projections. Additionally, the company has posted on its Investor Relations website, www.pginvestor.com, a full reconciliation of non-GAAP and other financial measures.

Steve Powers

Good morning. Welcome back. Welcome to Day 3 of the Global Consumer Conference. I’m thrilled to kick us off with Procter & Gamble. With us from P&G today are Chairman of the Board, President and Chief Executive Officer, Jon Moeller; as well as Chief Financial Officer, Andre Schulten.

The way that we’re going to structure the next 40 minutes is that Andre and Jon will tag team on a relatively brief presentation. Walk us through current stated affairs at P&G and then set the stage, and then we’ll use the bounce of time for Q&A.

And with that, I will hand it over to Andre.

Andre Schulten

Good morning, everyone. So I want to start today with a review of results, and then Jon will deep dive to our strategies, and we look forward to answering any questions after that.

So starting with results, very strong 3 quarters of the fiscal year and what continues to be still a challenging cost and operational environment for us and the industry. Organic sales up 7%. And within this, we’re seeing improving organic volume trends going from minus 6% in quarter 2 to minus 3% in quarter 3, and we expect the trends to improve in the following quarters.

Core earnings per share were down 1%, offsetting nearly 28 points of cost and foreign exchange headwinds. The organization overcame those headwinds while growing sales, holding share on a global aggregate basis and continuing to invest in innovation and the superiority of our brands with a focus on sustained balanced growth and value creation.

The strong top line results this year are a continuation of the momentum we built well before the COVID crisis. Over the last 4 fiscal years, organic sales are up 6% on average, up 7% through March.

Top line growth is also [Technical Difficulty] portfolio with all 10 categories growing organic sales through quarter 3. Organic sales are also broad-based across regions through March Focus 7 regions are growing or holding organic sales versus prior year. Through March, global aggregate market share is in line with the prior year with 31 of our top 50 category country combinations holding or growing share. Through April, past 3 months, U.S. all-outlet value share is up 20 basis points, with 8 of 10 categories holding or growing value share and 9 of 10 categories holding or growing volume share.

Volume share is up 70 basis points, improving sequentially as we continue to invest and as consumers demonstrate their preference for P&G’s superior products.

We are continuing our strong track record of cash return to shareowners. We’ve paid a dividend for the past 133 years, only 7 U.S. publicly traded companies have paid a dividend more consecutive years in P&G.

In April, we announced a dividend increase, making this the 67th consecutive year we’ve raised the dividend. Only 3 U.S companies have raised the dividend more consecutive years. Over the past 10 years, we’ve averaged 102% adjusted free cash flow productivity, and we returned over $140 billion to shareowners via dividends and share repurchase.

Over the past 2 years, we’ve experienced unprecedented headwinds, nearly $7 billion after tax. In EPS terms, this represents $2.69 per share, nearly half of fiscal ’21 core EPS of $5.66. While we are encouraged to see input costs moderating slightly, they are up still significantly year-on-year. We are confident in our ability to overcome these headwinds via innovation, productivity and pricing behind the superiority of our brands.

We are committed to returning to our balanced growth algorithm across the top and bottom line over the coming quarters. Balance on the top line includes more balanced sales drivers across volume, pricing and mix.

We view reigniting underlying category volume growth in the categories we compete in as a critical enabler for balanced mid- and long-term growth, and catalysts for this growth are available to us even in the most developed markets. We have opportunities to drive incremental household penetration, identify new jobs to be done with our consumers and encourage incremental usage for a better consumer experience.

So a few examples. U.S. Fabric enhancers organic sales have grown double digits on average over the last 7 years. Despite strong sustained growth, there remains significant upside potential in household penetration across all forms, liquid fabric enhancers, scent beads and dryer sheets. And once we’re present in a consumer’s household, significant opportunity exists in low penetration, which is illustrated by the table on the right.

While we frequently use fabric enhancers as a common example, growth opportunities exist in all categories. Taking Baby Care as an example, since launching Ninjamas, the bedwetting segment has grown double digits with P&G driving 40% of the growth on average, nearly 4 times our fair share. Dawn Powerwash and Downy Rinse are incremental products to the dishwashing and laundry regimen that solved previously unmet consumer needs.

Balanced growth on the bottom line is enabled by getting productivity back to pre-COVID levels. We have a lot of opportunity to drive productivity across the full P&L and balance sheet enabled by Supply Chain 3.0, continuing to drive media efficiencies, digital capability and automation. A portion of these savings will be reinvested in the superiority of our brands across the 5 vectors of product, package, brand communication, retail execution and value, especially now when consumers are even more focused on the performance and value of the brands they choose.

Now let me turn it over to Jon to discuss our strategies.

Jon Moeller

Thanks, Andre. Good morning. I’ll begin by reinforcing Andre’s last point, the importance of balanced top and bottom line growth. Many of you have heard me say, top line with no bottom line, a waste of time. Bottom line with no top line, just a matter of time. Our team continues to operate with excellence, executing the integrated strategies that have enabled strong results over the past 4 years and which are the foundation for balanced growth and value creation.

A focused portfolio of daily use products, many providing cleaning, health and hygiene benefits, all our categories, where performance plays a significant role in brand choice. Superiority to win with consumers, we have an ongoing commitment to an investment in irresistible superiority across the 5 vectors of product package, brand communication, retail execution and value.

We’re again raising the bar on our superiority standards to offer even greater delight. The Dawn brand provides a great superiority. Example, Dawn has delivered outstanding results behind innovation that drives product and packaging superiority. We launched Dawn Powerwash in the U.S. in early 2020. If Powerwash were a stand-alone brand, it would now be the third largest in the category.

We’re innovating to extend this margin of advantage. Last year, we launched Dawn EZ-Squeeze in the U.S. and Fairy Max in Europe. Superior products with an upgraded formula across the entire lineup. Superior packaging, the no flip, no-mess cap makes it easy and fast to use from the first squeeze to the last. Superior communication across the lineup.

Let’s watch 2 ads: 1 for Dawn EZ-Squeeze and then Dawn Powerwash.

[Audio/Video Presentation]

Jon Moeller

Superiority across all 5 vectors: product package, brand communication, retail execution and value, drive strong results. Dawn has delivered over 90% of the U.S. Hand Dish category growth over the last 3.5 years, nearly 30% higher than our fair share. During the same time period, Dawn’s value share is up 10 points. Driving category growth with superior innovation, builds market share and builds business for our retail partners.

Safeguard detox body wash in China provides another example of driving category growth with a superior proposition across the 5 vectors. As the number one personal cleansing brand, Safeguard has provided protection to Chinese families for over 30 years. We continue to extend our superiority advantage beyond just cleansing with superior usage experience, packaging that dispenses a luxurious foam 10 times creamier than normal lathering.

Superior communication, where the consumer chooses. Traditional media still plays a role in China, but increasingly, consumers are engaging via Douyin and live streaming. So how we engage with the consumer has to shift as well.

Let’s look at two examples on this brand.

[Audio/Video Presentation]

Jon Moeller

Clear, right. But superiority, again, driving superior results. Safeguard detox body wash grew 80% this fiscal year through March, 8-0. Value share has grown continuously in the past 3 years. And at a selling price 2 times the category average, Safeguard detox body wash is a sweetener for our retail partners.

Here in Europe, Fabric Care is driving product and packaging superiority. Superior products. The new 4-chamber Ariel Platinum PODS are driving strong consumer demand in fabric care, the high-performance formula enables cold water washing, a benefit to the environment and to consumer wallets. Superior cardboard packaging, which is both consumer preferred and more sustainable.

Let’s watch this copy.

[Audio/Video Presentation]

Jon Moeller

Superiority enables innovation-based pricing, which has been critical, as Andre said, given the cost headwinds, and it also delivers a superior consumer value, which is based on a combination of price, product performance, and the usage experience.

These innovations are contributing to mid-single-digit organic sales growth in Europe Fabric Care and double-digit growth in fabric enhancers through March.

Superiority is critical in an inflationary environment. As consumers faced increased pressure on nearly every aspect of their household budgets, we’re investing to deliver truly superior value in all price tiers where we compete to earn their loyalty every day.

The strategic need to continue to strengthen the long-term health and competitiveness of our brands, the short-term need to manage through significant cost headwinds and the ongoing need to drive balanced top and bottom line growth, including margin expansion, underscore the importance of ongoing productivity.

Productivity in marketing. More efficiency and greater effectiveness enable us to reach consumers when and where they’re most receptive to our advertising. This leads to higher quality engagement and when orchestrated across media platforms avoids excessive advertising frequency, which is the best wasteful spending and at worst an annoyance to consumers.

We’ve made very good progress in building and scaling capabilities to drive effectiveness and efficiency of marketing spend, and we have plenty of runway left ahead of us. In cost of goods, productivity is usually a lower cost per case of product delivered to a customer, but lower cost is only one form of productivity. Productivity that improves quality increases supply assurance and yields higher on-shelf availability of our products, all of which improve superiority with consumers and retail partners are huge value creators for our business.

Our success in our competitive industry also requires agility that comes with a mindset of constructive disruption, a willingness to change, adapt and create new trends and technologies that will shape our industry for the future. These capabilities often extend our competitive advantage. Our organization is increasingly more empowered, agile and accountable with little overlap or redundancy flowing to new demands, seamlessly supporting each other to deliver against our priorities around the world.

There are 4 areas we’re driving to further strengthen the execution of these integrated strategies Supply Chain 3.0, digital acumen, environmental sustainability and our employee value equation. These are not new or separate strategies. They are necessary elements in continuing to build superiority, reduce cost to enable investment and value creation and to further strengthen our organization.

With Supply Chain 3.0, we’re creating the next benchmark, a supply chain that provides greater agility, flexibility, scalability, transparency and resilience. We expect Supply Chain 3.0 to enable productivity savings of up to $1.5 billion per year, a portion of which will be reinvested.

Environmental sustainability, our efforts in sustainability are important to create more value while improving our environmental impact, enabling consumers to reduce their footprint and helping society solve some of our most pressing challenges. Irresistible superiority without making trade-offs between performance and sustainability. A few examples, Gillette and Venus replaced their plastic packaging with fully recyclable paper and cardboard boxes. This saves over 1,000 metric tons of plastic, the equivalent of 150 million water bottles every year.

Hair Care Europe has moved to 100% recycled plastic for Head & Shoulders and Pantene. This saves 10,000 tons of virgin plastic annually. We also have superior innovation that helps consumers reduce their footprint, which can often lead to a superior value equation by enabling consumers to save energy and water. Tide and Ariel provides superior cold water performance, that enables energy cost savings for consumers and improves sustainability by reducing the energy required to heat water in the laundry process. And washing it cold improves garment lives.

The superior communication of this benefit is working. In Europe, average watch temperatures are down 2 degrees centigrade over the past 2 years. Our ambition is to lower temperatures 5 degrees Celsius by 2025.

Cascade, using a dishwasher can use less water than washing in the sink, up to 20 gallons per load. The Fairy Max improved formula helps save water by being able to start washing dishes from the first drop of water, no need to wait for the water to warm up. We’re also helping industry reduce its footprint through leading innovation and making innovative technologies available across industries.

P&G invented and patented a recycling technology to produce virgin-like resin from polypropylene plastic. We’ve licensed the technology to PureCycle Technologies, and they’re making it broadly available to other consumer goods manufacturers, the food and beverage industry, furniture industry, and there are additional potential future applications such as for automotive parts.

We recently developed a similar technology to recycle polyethylene waste. We’re working with partners to commercialize this as well. Another example is our leadership in enrolling industry to use digital watermark technology embedded in our packaging. It’s invisible to human eyes but detectable at recyclers to enable accurate and automated plastic sorting. This results in higher quality recycled material and an increase in recycling rates.

Laser labeling technology uses rapid laser marking so that graphics can be printed on bottles during the filling process. This helps recyclability by eliminating adhesive labels. This is at an internal development stage, starting with P&G shampoos and fabric care beads in North America, and we’ll be looking for licensing opportunities across industries in the next couple of years.

So we’re going to continue to innovate and invest to help society solve some of the most pressing environmental challenges.

Next focus area is Digital Acumen. Data and digitization are giving us access to tools we’ve never had before to delight consumers and create shareholder value across our operations. An example, we’re creating new digital tools and capabilities that help us recommend winning shelf sets to our retail partners.

Faster, more accurate at prediction and with fewer resources. On the virtual shelf, we have digital tools that tell our teams exactly where to show up in search, which words to bid on, how much to invest in a campaign and when to run it. These digital technologies drive superior retail execution and provide us with a competitive advantage versus anything else in the marketplace today.

Finally, the employee value proposition, we want to ensure that working at P&G delivers a superior experience and value for all employees. By definition, this must include the quality. To deliver a superior value, employee value equation, there must be something in it for everyone. As mentioned earlier, our focus remains on balanced top and bottom line growth.

In the ever more complex world we live in, though, it’s not just top and bottom line that must be balanced. We must endeavor to balance the needs of an increasing number of constituents or were unlikely to deliver against the needs of any of them. Consumer, customer, employee, society, and shareowner needs must each be met. There is no choice to make here. There is no opt out. Servicing and balancing the needs of each of these constituents will not be easy. But it’s necessary. And those who do it best as I expect we will, should thrive.

Better be balanced top line, bottom line and effective in serving a growing number of constituents. These strategic choices, portfolio, superiority, productivity, constructive disruption and organization structure and culture are not independent strategies. They reinforce and build on each other. When executed well, they grow markets, and in turn, deliver strong sales, share, earnings and cash results leading to balanced growth and value creation.

We continue to believe that the best path forward to deliver sustainable top and bottom line growth is to double down on these integrated strategies, starting with a commitment to deliver irresistibly superior propositions to consumers and retail partners.

Thanks. And with that, I’ll turn it over to Steve.

Question-and-Answer Session

A – Steve Powers

Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you, both. Okay. I’ll ask to kind of dive into here. Maybe I just want to start with Andre, you talked about a desire to get back to balanced top and bottom line growth over the coming quarters and consistent with those long-term targets. And I guess as I was hearing you, I was trying to figure out if that was — if that means it’s a fair way, is the long-term algorithm of fair place to anchor expectations for fiscal ’24? Or is it too premature to do that?

Andre Schulten

Well, we won’t give guidance yet for ’24. But what we intend to do is return over time to that algorithm. Make mid-single-digit top line growth, constructed in a way that includes volume growth as a category driver, mid- to high single digits on core EPS. And that implies margin expansion. So productivity partially reinvested in building more superiority but also helping us to continue to rebuild margin over time, and 90% or higher free cash flow productivity. We believe that’s what’s needed for the company to operate in the top tier of our peer group, and that’s what we want to get back to over time.

Steve Powers

Now there’s been a lot of conversation coming into this week and this week about the deterioration of potential deterioration of consumer demand, mostly focused on the U.S., but also here in Europe. I’d love, a, your perspective on that and how you’re seeing the world evolve. But then I’ve heard you talk about that as times get more difficult, and you mentioned this in the context of inflation, but the importance of superiority goes up, not down. It’s important to double down on superiority — on the superiority model. Maybe you can just talk about that and talk about the implications of that from a cost perspective.

Andre Schulten

I can start with it and then let Jon jump in here. Look, let’s take the U.S. consumer as an indicator. What we’re seeing right now is continued stability. Our categories in the U.S. continue to grow value at around 6% to 7%, fairly consistent past 3, past 6, past 12 months. Volumes are stabilizing more towards the 0, where we want them to be from a category perspective. And from our perspective, our portfolio of brands has been able to continuously win in that environment.

So we continue to grow value share and we continue to grow volume share and it is accelerating. So we feel relatively strong about our U.S. business and the stability of the U.S. market overall. I think the strategy of executing innovation as we took pricing to continue to drive category growth and continue to incent consumption and deliver value to the consumer has worked well. And we’ll continue down that path as we go along. Which leads me to the second part of your question, which is the role of the priority to sustain that momentum, which I think is absolutely critical.

And as we think through the strategies that Jon described, one of the core elements we talk about is to disrupt ourselves and not stand still and avoid inertia in the organization and in our innovation. That’s where the concept of superiority comes in. Because we believe that this concept is dynamic in nature.

So we will have to continue to invest, to drive better product innovation, drive better packaging, drive better go-to-market execution, better shelf sets, increase our copy quality and execution in market and therefore, provide better value to our retail partners and to our consumers. That doesn’t necessarily mean more investment, but it means sustained investment. So what we want to make clear is that we can’t let up and therefore, productivity, as Jon said, is absolutely critical to make sure we keep that balanced approach between top line and bottom line.

Jon Moeller

Do you want to talk just a minute, Andre, about trade down, should it occur within our brands and how we’re positioned too?

Andre Schulten

Yes, we see some of that. In the U.S., it’s really in 2 places. One, I would describe as our portfolio is doing the job we wanted to do, and that will be laundry, where we see some level of trade down from Tide into Gain and Tide Simply, nothing material, but it is there.

And the portfolio is doing exactly what we wanted to do, catching our consumers as they’re looking for a different value equation with a lower cash outlay.

The aggregate of Fabric Care in the U.S. is accelerating volume share growth and will return to value share growth here over the next couple of quarters. So we feel good about the strength of the business, but there is some trend down.

The other categories are the paper categories where we see limited trade down to private label, that tissue would be one, diapers is another. And that, as we talked before, is partially driven by base period dynamics in terms of supply. So again, overall, yes, I acknowledge there is some level of trade down, not broad-based, very surgical, but the overall category remains strong.

Jon Moeller

But as you reflect on that and what it means, don’t forget, 7% top line growth that Andre talked about, broad strength across the categories, that’s the prevailing reality that we’re currently seeing and managing.

Steve Powers

And I think — that gets at maybe a misconception. I mean, it’s too harsh a word, but there’s a misconception sometimes I think, between superiority and premiumization. I think in your view that those are very distinct and different terms. So can you maybe talk about how you — how superior fits into the that?

Jon Moeller

I mean, to put very simply, we want to have superior offerings at every price tier in which we compete. That’s what we aim to do with Tide Simply. That’s what we aim to do with Gain. It’s what we aim to do with the different forms of Tide or Ariel here in Europe. So it’s all pervasive objective, not a premiumization approach.

Andre Schulten

Yes. And then superiority at those different tiers is defined versus the relevant peer group, right? So if you look at, for example, diapers in the U.S., Luvs would be the value tier and the comparisons against private label. So the relevant set of parameters we need to optimize is different versus the premium tiers. As Jon said, it’s really across the value tiers with Gain.

Steve Powers

Another hot topic this week has been changing or not discussions between consumer goods companies and their retail partners. Whether it’s in the U.S. or Europe or otherwise. Maybe you can just frame for us your discussions with retailers and what their objectives are and if they’ve changed at all in the last few months and quarters?

Jon Moeller

So I’m regularly speaking with our retail partner, CEOs, and their leadership teams. 99% of the conversation — well, actually, conversation splits into 2 parts, both of which are very constructive.

The first is supply, supply, supply. There’s more demand for our products than we’ve been able to supply, and they want to work with us to address that opportunity, which will benefit us and will benefit them.

So that characterized as part of the conversation. The balance of the conversation is about innovation and superiority to drive market growth. They don’t really care about our share growth, what they care about is what happens to the market, and therefore, their sales and revenue growth rates. And we’re uniquely positioned to be able to help them with that. We have a specific objective, and I alluded to it a couple of times in the discussion, of contributing disproportionately, so above our market shares to the market growth of the categories that we get in. And when we do that successfully, that’s what they want to talk about. So there hasn’t been a lot of discussion beyond those 2 topics.

Steve Powers

On your April conference call, Jon, you talked about a trip you’ve taken to China in, I believe, March and you’d come back incrementally optimistic. Juxtapose that with the reactions from others about the progress in China, which is a little bit less enthusiastic. So could you compare and contrast that and maybe square that circle for us and what you’re seeing?

Jon Moeller

Sure. So my expectations were pretty low. I haven’t been there in 3 years. I hadn’t seen our organization physically in 3 years. I haven’t been in stores in 3 years. I hadn’t met with our government contacts in 3 years. I didn’t really know what to expect.

And I was — against that backdrop, I was very pleasantly surprised on all levels. And I continue to have very high hopes as it relates to the contribution of that market to our results over time. I think, I’ve said, maybe it wasn’t on the earnings call, and I apologize if I didn’t provide that clarity there that this wasn’t going to be a straight-line recovery.

And that we — there were things that people needed to adjust to. I think, what they’ve been through. So I was spending time in consumer homes along with the rest of the team, understanding how they were faring, how they were thinking about the world. And I would be in conversations where people would say, I don’t really know how to think. I just spent 3 years being told that I should not leave my home. And now I’ve been told, I should. And I’m living in a relatively small environment, often with a multigenerational family. And I don’t know if it’s safe.

And when I went there in March, they’ve just gone through the reopening in the COVID wave that came with that. And 90% of our employees had COVID at the same time. So it’s hard against that backdrop, just to expect, “hey, let’s go.” That’s not what’s happening. But expect the whole ecosystem is in a good place, and we’ll continue to recover barring some other issue over time.

There was also one more thing. There was also a second COVID wave about 4 weeks ago. So those who didn’t get the first time got it then. And so when you hear other companies talking about kind of mixed results, that’s part of the equation as well.

Andre Schulten

And our expectation, I’d just add one point, never was an explosive recovery from Jon’s perspective. We always said China will, over time, in our categories return to mid-single-digit growth. And that’s honestly what we see playing here.

Jon Moeller

Yes. For perspective, in the lockdown months or quarters, our growth — category growth was minus 10%. And as Andre said, it’s now mid-single digits. So there’s significant improvement, but not yet back to where things were before COVID.

Steve Powers

Based on what you’ve seen or otherwise, have your investment priorities and changed in China?

Jon Moeller

No, no.

Steve Powers

We’re coming up on time. And this answer may be quick. It may not be quick. So — but I want to make sure I get a lot of time for it if it’s not.

There are lots of different aspects of the strategy where you aspire to be superior, you aspire to be better. If each of you could pick one of everything that you talked about in the presentation, one dynamic of superiority, one vector where you would like to be better, more superior, which would it be and why and how?

Andre Schulten

All of them. There is no — the interesting thing about the strategy is, it doesn’t work if you pick one. You have to be superior across product, package, communication, go-to-market and value. And the way we validated that is to really look at the past 15 years. And where we are superior in 4 or more of those vectors, we’ve been able to grow markets, grow volume share, grow value share, deliver top line growth, deliver bottom line growth and ultimately, operating TSR. Where we were superior in 3 or less, none of that happened. So it’s critical, and Jon’s favourite answer is and to the organization. We have to ensure that the organization keeps understanding that it has to be across all 5 factors of superiority or it won’t work.

Jon Moeller

And the same thing is true, as I mentioned at the end, with the constituents that we serve. You can’t, in today’s world, pick to serve consumers, but not shareowners. You can’t pick to serve consumers, but not employees. It doesn’t work. You won’t be allowed to be irresponsible with regard to your societal obligations.

And so we’re increasingly in a world where it’s an and world, and in many ways, that’s great. Because it enables us to the extent that we can do that successfully, and I think we can to differentiate ourselves even further as a winning company, as a responsible company, as a company that people want to be associated with and want to work with.

Steve Powers

The vocabulary that you’ve established around superiority, I think — it’s now ingrained in investor communications and in 2-way communications. I think investors feed it back to you and there’s a share vocabulary, internally, share vocabulary. I think, that’s been increasingly clear over the course of time. What about with your retail customers? Did they embrace the same vocabulary, and language and framework? Or is that an evolution?

Jon Moeller

Increasingly . That’s still an opportunity. But I’ll just give you a quick anecdote as this conversation evolves and it comes back to — we were talking about the retail conversation and market growth and supply. And the first time that I met Doug McMillon, the CEO of Walmart, in this role — his leadership team was there, and there were a number of other manufacturers that were in this discussion. And they kept talking about the Walmart’s market share.

And at some point, I couldn’t handle it anymore. So I stood up and said, look, let’s just be straight with each other. I don’t care about your market share, and you don’t care about mine. But there’s one thing that we both care about, and that’s the market. So let’s have our teams work on how together we go to market in a superior way with superior products, the whole list, and we’ll both be happy. We’ll both be very happy.

So that increasingly is the basis of the conversation. We’re probably a little bit less developed in the quality and consistency of that conversation, and for example, Europe. But again, what we can convince somebody to try to hold our hand and let’s see how this works and it works. The world changes. And that’s what’s been happening Domino after Domino.

Steve Powers

All right. And with that, we are right on time. So we’ll leave it there. Thank you, Jon. Thank you, Andre. Thank you all.